Posts by raymond frantz

19

Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?

by raymond frantz in

i have been trying recently different ways to get fellow witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :.

"would you believe in the trinity if the governing body told you to ?

because it is not in the bible .

raymond frantz

I have been trying recently different ways to get fellow Witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :

"Would you believe in the Trinity if the Governing Body told you to ? "

No!

"Why ? "

Because it is not in the Bible

"Who is the final authority then ,the Bible or the Governing Body?"

The Bible

"If the doctrine of Trinity is your drawing the line ,would you accept that, for others this line could be a different doctrine?"

THAT WAY OF APPROACH SEEMS TO WORK EVERYTIME ,what do you think?

12

The Governing Body Myth

by DATA-DOG in

whatever your feelings about god or the bible, you may agree that thier manner of communication is very nice.

when the matter could not be resolved, paul and barnabas took the issue back to the congregation of the brothers who originated the problem - the jerusalem congregation.

we learn from this account, not that the jerusalem congregation served as a headquarters or governing body that handed down instruction and guidance for the other congregations.

The last thing I want is to follow some anonymous self appointed anointed . I don't want to replace one ideol (GB) with another (anointedjw) .We 're all going to heaven ,anointed and great crowd .We' re all equal and therefore unless they can back their words with miracles they're as good as any of us .

They way they write is somewhat apologetic .It is as if Antony Morris has realised the game is up and presents himself as the kind anointed comapred to the hardline anointed that he and his mates are

60

If you believe God exists, what are your thoughts on what pleases him most?

by Fernando in

our family has come to believe that god really wants each individual to personally and independently seek, find and walk with him - quite apart from what other humans say, think, believe or do.. we believe we were created as semi-autonomous beings.

when our inner compass is recalibrated, and we then self-direct, the outcomes seem best.. when we are instead led by humans, their hierarchies, organisations and ideas, the outcomes on the whole seem unfavourable.

legalism (rules), moralism (a moral code), ethnocentrism (doctrine), and gnosticism (knowledge) may seem meritorious.. yet these do not seem to lead to the deep inner transformation needed.

raymond frantz

I grew up in a Witness family ,when I was a kid about 9-10 I told my dad that God is like a scientist ,trial and error, he made Adam and seeing he wasn't happy he gave him Eve .He said that was a blasphemy .I don't think so anymore . I see the Bible as a God's PR exercise towards mankind and evidence that he doesn't know us that well .The OT God is hateful ,loves killing and exact punishment ,this is a fact ,you can't escape it .The NW God is loving ,forgiving ,more understanting. In the new system to come we might get to see another face

12

The Governing Body Myth

by DATA-DOG in

whatever your feelings about god or the bible, you may agree that thier manner of communication is very nice.

when the matter could not be resolved, paul and barnabas took the issue back to the congregation of the brothers who originated the problem - the jerusalem congregation.

we learn from this account, not that the jerusalem congregation served as a headquarters or governing body that handed down instruction and guidance for the other congregations.

raymond frantz

We pray that our governing brothers are pivoting toward truth. If not, perhaps through the encouragement from our local brothers and sisters, they can be 'brought to their senses' like the prodigal son. (Luke 15:17) We must respect their humanity and their ability to correct themselves; they are only men subject to error just like us; and they are still our brothers. We should also take seriously to heart Paul's counsel:

"Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted. Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ." - Galatians 6:1-2

So how do I go about correcting them ? Do I write them a letter ? Or do I tell the local elders ? These men in Brooklyn have blood in their hands ,they go to sleep every night in full knowledge that they have destroyed thousand of families with their disfellowship practise .These snakes are not my brothers ,they are Satan's offspring as were the Pharishees of Jesus' days and they will be judged harsly from their Master shortly.

Website offering help for children cases

by raymond frantz in

i came across the following website http://jwchildcustody.com .it offers advice to parents fight a custody for children case with their jehovah's witness spouse .it is meant for your lawyer, i hope that will be a good help for many?

.

raymond frantz

I came across the following website http://jwchildcustody.com .It offers advice to parents fight a custody for children case with their Jehovah's Witness spouse .It is meant for your lawyer, I hope that will be a good help for many?

54

Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!

by Cagefighter in

dead people raided jerusalem during the cruxifiction?

how have i never heard this before?

why do i suspect the nwt completely leaves this event out?.

raymond frantz

Another explanation is this one :

Around Jerusalem at the time, the method of burial was in the side of a hill or mountain. They usually did not bury the dead 6 foot under the dirt. These would be either naturally occurring caves or dug out especially for burials.

When the earthquake(s) happened--the main one with aftershocks, normally---this dislodged (literally) the sealed stones at the openings and the bodies inside. Gravity takes over and these bodies roll down the hill, into the streets of Jerusalem.

For those residents or anybody really, this caused the citizens to be very upset. But those bodies then did not get up and walk away. They remained dead.

Someone asked why you asked this of Jehovah's Witnesses? The answer is obvious. You wanted a correct answer based on research and knowledge. It is how we do things. Not by repeating what some clergyman has you recite.

54

Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!

by Cagefighter in

dead people raided jerusalem during the cruxifiction?

how have i never heard this before?

why do i suspect the nwt completely leaves this event out?.

raymond frantz

Epiphanius and other early Church Fathers taught that the holy ones literally came to life and went with the resurrected Jesus to heaven. Augustine, Theophylactus, and Zigabenus believed that these dead ones received a temporary resurrection but later returned to their tombs.

54

Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!

by Cagefighter in

dead people raided jerusalem during the cruxifiction?

how have i never heard this before?

why do i suspect the nwt completely leaves this event out?.

raymond frantz

kai	κα?	and	Conj
3588 [e]	ta	τ?	the	Art-NNP
3419 [e]	mnemeia	μνημε?α	tombs	N-NNP
455 [e]	aneochthesan	?νε?χθησαν	were opened,	V-AIP-3P
2532 [e]	kai	κα?	and	Conj
4183 [e]	polla	πολλ?	many	Adj-NNP
4983 [e]	somata	σ?ματα	bodies	N-NNP
3588 [e]	ton	τ?ν	of the	Art-GMP
2837 [e]	kekoimemenon	κεκοιμημ?νων	fallen asleep	V-RPM/P-GMP
40 [e]	hagion	?γ?ων	saints	Adj-GMP
1453 [e]	egerthesan	?γ?ρθησαν	arose,

κα?	and	Conj
1831 [e]	exelthontes	?ξελθ?ντες	having gone forth	V-APA-NMP
1537 [e]	ek	?κ	out of	Prep
3588 [e]	ton	τ?ν	the	Art-GNP
3419 [e]	mnemeion	μνημε?ων	tombs	N-GNP
3326 [e]	meta	μετ?	after	Prep
3588 [e]	ten	τ?ν	the	Art-AFS
1454 [e]	egersin	?γερσιν	resurrection	N-AFS
846 [e]	autou	α?το?	of him,	PPro-GM3S
1525 [e]	eiselthon	ε?σ?λθον	they entered	V-AIA-3P
1519 [e]	eis	ε?ς	into	Prep
3588 [e]	ten	τ?ν	the	Art-AFS
40 [e]	hagian	?γ?αν	holy	Adj-AFS
4172 [e]	polin	π?λιν	city	N-AFS
2532 [e]	kai	κα?	and	Conj
1718 [e]	enephanisthesan	?νεφαν?σθησαν	appeared	V-AIP-3P
4183 [e]	pollois	πολλο?ς	to many.

12

For those of you who were die hard JW's, did you ever think...

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

you would find yourself on this side of the fence?.

raymond frantz

never ,it takes one personal disaster to starft looking .I feel so ashamed now for a brother was dsfellowshiped for apostasy was I was a kid and nver talked to him

12

Advise Needed : Should I stay should I go ?

by raymond frantz in

jw
friends

a year ago i started looking heavily into "apostate" websites ,now after a year i'm convinced that i have been lied to and kept in the dark for so long .i hate going to the meetings having to cope with these disgusting watchtower articles .unfortunatelly my family are still in wife and kids and i have raised them to be good witnesses .i feel betrayed by the watchtower and i'm sure if it wasn't for these evil men in brooklyn 99% of all witnesses that wake up would not have an issue changing all the wrong doctrines .these satanic men who dare call themselves "anointed " have spend almost 40 years, especially since they changed the baptismal vows and after raymond franz's exit ,creating a "prison of the mind" ,if anyone wants to leave they have to kiss goodbye friends ,family and start all over again .what shall i do stay in and try to work against them or leave?

any advice will be appreciated.

raymond frantz

Dario Khel ,many thanks for the advice ,you gave food for thought

Gotshapeddemon ,here is my thought .I agree entirely about the 95% "sleeping" sheep ,nevertheless they are blaspheming against Jehovah with their doctrines and they are a danger to the public since they do not tell all the truth to new comers .What if i send an anonymous letter to the elders telling them that will expose the truth to the local community (with flyers from door to door?) about the disfellowshiping practice .You see ,they can lie to people from door to door and lie to themselves but when faced with the option of being exposed to the very people that they 're trying to witness the powers of reason will return because deep inside they know they are full of bull*** .

This way I get something accomplished .Your thoughts?